Welcome to Courage to Advance, hosted by Kim Bohr and brought to you by SparkEffect, in partnership with The Empathy Edge.
Tune in to our subseries every 3rd Thursday, right here on The Empathy Edge! Or check us out at www.CourageToAdvancePodcast.com.
What happens when the HR executive who once handled outplacement for others suddenly finds herself on the receiving end? In a candid role-reversal conversation, Kim Bohr sits down with Karen Hague, a former Head of HR who experienced executive outplacement firsthand and transformed that challenge into an opportunity by becoming a career coach for executives facing similar transitions. Together, they explore how leaders can navigate career disruption with grace, purpose, and strategic vision.
This candid conversation reveals how outplacement—often viewed as an ending—can become a powerful catalyst for professional growth and personal transformation. Karen shares vulnerable insights from both sides of the table: implementing outplacement as an HR leader and experiencing it personally.
Discover practical strategies for building authentic professional relationships, leveraging your network effectively, and aligning your next career move with your core values. Learn why creating a structured approach to career transitions can transform uncertainty into opportunity
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Key Takeaways:
- How to overcome the shame and vulnerability that often accompanies executive transitions
- The critical importance of authenticity when crafting your transition story
- Why values alignment should drive your next career decision
- Practical networking strategies that build genuine two-way relationships
- How organizations can approach outplacement with empathy and strategic wisdom
“When you show up as your authentic, transparent, vulnerable self, you’re at your best. And it took me a while to realize what was my best, but I can’t fake it. When I don’t show up that way, it’s not a good situation for anybody.” — Karen Hague
About Karen Hague: Karen is an experienced HR leader and executive coach based in the San Francisco Bay Area. With over 30 years in human resources, her career spans roles across all HR disciplines, culminating as Head of HR for a company that transitioned from private equity ownership to public status during her tenure.
Karen’s unique perspective comes from experiencing both sides of executive transitions—implementing outplacement strategies as an HR leader and navigating her own career pivot. Today, she channels this experience into coaching executives through career transitions, helping them discover authentic paths forward aligned with their values and strengths.
About SparkEffect:
SparkEffect partners with organizations to unlock the full potential of their greatest asset: their people. Through their tailored assessments and expert coaching at every level, SparkEffect helps organizations manage change, sustain growth, and chart a path to a brighter future.
Go to sparkeffect.com/edge now and download your complimentary Professional and Organizational Alignment Review today.
Connect with Karen Hague:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenhague/
Connect with Kim Bohr and SparkEffect
SparkEffect: sparkeffect.com
Courage to Advance recording and resources:
sparkeffect.com/courage-to-advance-podcast
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/sparkeffect
LinkedIn for Kim Bohr: linkedin.com/in/kimbohr
Connect with Maria:
Get Maria’s books on empathy: Red-Slice.com/books
Learn more about Maria’s work: Red-Slice.com
Hire Maria to speak: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take the LinkedIn Learning Course! Leading with Empathy
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Facebook: Red Slice
Threads: @redslicemaria
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. Hi everyone. It’s Maria here, and I am so excited to share today’s courage to advance podcast episode with you all. Talk about empathy. I love how host Kim Bohr talks about the fact that career upheaval is not always the end of leadership, but often the most profound beginning, and if we as leaders can tap into that empathy of understanding what it’s like for the person on the other side of the table, we can be even more powerful and impactful with our leadership. She is offering you such a great conversation today. I hope you enjoy
Kim Bohr 01:20
what if the most defining moment of your leadership journey isn’t when you’re in the position of power making decisions, but rather when you’re handed the decision you never wanted your own outplacement. Welcome everyone. I’m Kim Bohr, president and COO of Spark effect and host of the courage to advance podcast. Today’s guests live this story from both sides of the table and discover that career upheaval isn’t the end of leadership, but often is the most profound beginning. Karen egg has over 30 years of experience in business, human resource management and executive leadership across a variety of industries. Her career journey has brought her to maybe her most impactful role now as a career coach who specializes in working with leaders in transition, whether leaving a company or promoting from within, for those leaders that are impacted by layoffs, her own journey provides a level of empathy and understanding that helps leaders regain confidence and the ability to see what’s possible. Welcome Karen, to the courage to advance podcast. I am so happy you’re here with us today.
Karen Hague 02:25
Thanks, Kim. I’m thrilled to be here. So let’s start by
Kim Bohr 02:29
giving our listeners a little bit of just kind of high level about your journey. And then we I’ve got so many great questions for you that I hope will really benefit those listening today. So please start by telling everybody how you’ve gotten to this place.
Karen Hague 02:42
Okay, so I started my career actually in line business positions, management positions in a Midwest retail organization, department store, and worked my way into the buying office. So spend some time in the buying office as well, and then convince someone to give me a shot in human resources. And since then, for the last oh gosh, 30 years, I’ve had a career in all of the different areas of human resources. And my last role was head of HR for a company that was private equity health, and then went public while I was there. So had some really great experiences throughout my life. And now on this next act I have the opportunity to coach, as well as do a little bit of HR consulting. Very exciting. I love that. So let’s dive right in. So you know, you and I have been talking about this a bit. You many executives really build their identity around the professional role, yeah, and part of why you’re here today is to really talk about some of the challenges that come up in that journey. And I’d love for you to talk a little bit about what was your most vulnerable moment during your career transition, and what specific act of courage did it take to move through the fear rather than being paralyzed by it? Great question, and yes, so identified by the work that we do and the work that we love to do. I think my most vulnerable moment was, well, I’ve sat in the job seeker seat twice, and I’ve sat in the client seat several times as well. I think from the job seekers side, it was realizing that I really didn’t want to be in the corporate HR world any longer. I wanted to do the things that I love to do. I also was really honest with myself and realized I’m not great at everything in human resources, and that was okay, and it was very empowering and made me able to take a risk and feel bold in being vulnerable and realizing I wanted to really focus in the areas that I felt I was really good at, and that gave me a lot of confidence to be able to take that leap.
Kim Bohr 04:51
And just to clarify a little bit further, that was really because of downsizing that needed to take place in your organization. Really being forced to have to make a transition yourself in a way that perhaps wasn’t as expected, correct? Definitely,
Karen Hague 05:07
I think there were also, in looking back, things that, again, I was really good at, but not everything. And it gave me the opportunity to look at that and say that’s okay, because this is really where I want to focus my time and energy anyway. And I don’t know that I would have done that as much having not had the experience of going through a reduction in force, a downsizing, an outplacement opportunity that really made me helped me to realize that,
Kim Bohr 05:40
and it’s so important that we’re talking about this now, there’s a lot of uncertainty in our economy as we record this. There’s a lot of just every day, we’re seeing layoffs through the government. We’re seeing layoffs through, you know, private industry. So you know, when you think about you back at that you could have at the time when you were, you know, maybe even first impacted, how did your identity as a leader shift during your transition from head h head of HR into experiencing outplacement yourself?
Karen Hague 06:07
I think in several ways. I think the first one was realizing that it was okay to be vulnerable, that there wasn’t shame attached to being part of a reduction in force, and that you could grab that as an opportunity. I know, I know opportunity doesn’t always come to mind when you think about being part of a reduction in force, but if you shift your mindset looking at it as an opportunity, and you take that opportunity to really revisit your values and think about who it is that you want to be and what it is that you want to be doing in that moment. Think I also realized that empathy, authenticity, transparency, are absolutely fine in a leadership role. And for me, when I show up as my authentic, transparent, vulnerable self, I’m at my best, and it took me a while to realize what was my best, but I can’t fake it, and if I don’t show up that way, it’s not a good situation for anybody. So I think those were my biggest learnings as a leader, experiencing that you mentioned
Kim Bohr 07:16
the word shame. And I think that’s something that I’d like to just talk a little bit more about, I think that’s something that it is such a natural emotion that people can feel. And sometimes we feel that when things are completely out of our control, we don’t have we really weren’t, we didn’t do anything. From a performance standpoint, this is truly, you know, economic pressure. And so, you know, can you talk a little bit more about that feeling, not only that you experienced, but how you where that shows up with others as well, and some of the work you do now?
Karen Hague 07:48
So probably the biggest place that shows up is when I talk to leaders about what we call their transition statement, how you went from one position to another. And you answer that question, why did you leave your last job, especially if it wasn’t necessarily your choice to leave that last job. And I bring in that authenticity, that vulnerability, that transparency, that suggests to people it’s your choice, but suggests to people to be your authentic, honest self. And I tell you what. The first time I told that story, it kind of got caught in my throat, and I was like, Oh my gosh, am I going to be this transparent and authentic? And I tell you what, it gave me the biggest boost of confidence, and again, helped me be more bold and take some risks. I’ll never know for sure, but I don’t think I ever had a challenge in finding my next role by telling my own authentic, very real, transparent story. It’s up to everyone, but I really encourage my clients to do that. So
Kim Bohr 08:47
when you know when you were
Karen Hague 08:51
going through the experience yourself, was that what was the most challenging part? Was it trying to get to this place of being honest with yourself. Was it navigating that you know, any sense of guilt or shame yourself, or talk a little bit more about you know that as well? I think it was all of those things Kim. It was definitely setting aside the shame and getting comfortable with telling my story in a way that was authentic to me. But it was also realizing that it was okay to ask for help. I had been that person all my life that was helping others, you know, in my personal life and my professional life, certainly as a head of HR and all through my HR career, and to realize that I needed to ask some people for help was the first step. And then the second step was realizing what I was asking for, what I was I asking people to help me with. And when I came to that realization, and I came up with the things that I was asking for help with, I realized how vast my network was and how much. Much people want to help you. You just need to sometimes help them know how to help you in those situations, because people want to help they just don’t always know how that. I
Kim Bohr 10:09
think that’s such a great point. And I think in such our busy time, how quickly things are moving, and then with uncertainty, it can be de prioritized for a lot of us. I think so. If you could go back and you really tell yourself on the day you receive the news, you know, just your best words of wisdom, what would that be? I think
Karen Hague 10:31
it would be, everything’s going to be okay. And just take a pause, take a breath and have a plan. I’m a huge planner. Anybody who knows me is going to laugh their head off at that. I’m a really big when they hear that I’m I need a plan. And when you are a person that likes a plan, being a job search isn’t the time to turn that off and think you’re going to throw caution to the wind, then be willy nilly. It’s the time to really invigorate that side of you. Work with a coach if you have a company that has given you the opportunity. But also think of your plan, but be willing to tweak it as you go and as you learn new things, what works, what doesn’t work, so everything’s going to be okay, confidence. And really also take a look at who do you want to be in this next chapter of your life. You have an opportunity to change some things up, show up a little bit differently, really hone in on the things that you’re really good at, and that’s all values work that you could do on your own or you can do with another partner or coach, and really determine what are your values that you really want to make sure you find in your next company or in your next app. So
Kim Bohr 11:45
one of the things that I think would be great for us to expand on a little bit more for listeners, is when we talk about the type of coaching, not only that you do, but you receive that was so pivotal in this transition for yourself, talk a little bit about the difference between the career coaching aspect and other types of coaching that people may be familiar with, such as executive coaching, of which you really at Spark effect we have both that we bring forward and yet there’s a really important difference. They’re not typically the same types of coaches. So can you talk a little bit about that? I think
Karen Hague 12:19
first and foremost, they both start out knowing that the client, the participant, the person that you’re sitting across from, controls the agenda, and really meeting that person where they’re at that’s not different in either executive or leadership coaching or career transition coaching. It’s all about getting to know your client, getting to know the person that’s sitting across from you, and where are they in this moment, and what do they need? And I’ve had some clients that we’ve spent five sessions in the kind of grief and processing what happened and moving through that what we talked about earlier on, which was shame. But then I think where the difference is is career transition coaching is a little bit more, it brings in a little bit more advisory work for those of us who’ve been here, and the great tools that we have available to us through spark effect, to give some structure to that search, give a roadmap to that search, we can still jump around within that roadmap based on what the client needs are. But is networking your biggest challenge? Let’s jump into that. Is interviewing your biggest challenge. Let’s jump into that and really develop your questions as well as what the questions are that you think this company recruiter or hiring manager is going to ask you. That doesn’t necessarily, of course, happen in leadership or executive coaching. So I think that’s probably where the biggest difference is. Is there a real, tried and true tools that we have available to offer to a client, to use based on where they sit and what their biggest needs are, meeting them where they’re at,
Kim Bohr 13:56
that’s really important and helpful. That’s really, really helpful. So given our, you know, our the the name of our podcast is courage to advance. You know, what is courage to advance mean to you now that you’ve been you through this transition, you know, out the other side now doing this work to help others navigate it. What is what does that
Karen Hague 14:17
mean? Courage to advance was first off taking the opportunity to to move into a coaching and consulting role and getting my certification and doing all the things that I needed to do to set up my business, and then really believing that people would come to me for This expertise and utilize my services. So it was really being bold and making a career choice in that moment, maybe a little earlier than I planned, but the timing was right to take that opportunity. So taking a risk, being a little bit bold and trying something new. Because of that values, work that I had done, that I mentioned in the last question of knowing this is the right time, this is where I want to be, and this is what I want to do. And again, back to our one of our first questions, knowing myself, showing up as my authentic, transparent self, is always important to me, I just didn’t know it early on. I think that’s so important for everybody, and sometimes that’s really scary for people too, to be to feel so vulnerable and transparent when these really just life changing moments are occurring. But yeah, let me add just one other thing that that really was eye opening for me. I’ve always had a good network. You’re talking to somebody who has best friends from kindergarten. So networking has always been an important part of my life, but I didn’t always realize it as a network, and I didn’t realize how powerful my network was until I went to it for some help with my job searches, and then when I went to it, when I started my own, my own business, and the amount of support when I asked for it was, it was, it just blew me away. And everybody has that, and it’s never too late to start cultivating that network, because it will absolutely get you through whatever this channel. Next challenge is, when you turn to your network,
Kim Bohr 16:30
is such an important point, and the fact that people inherently want to be helpful, and sometimes they just help because you don’t maybe know how to ask exactly for what you need, or it’s just you’re afraid to ask, and I want to spend some time on that in our conversation, before we get there. Were there any blind spots that you know you discovered about executive transition that weren’t maybe as visible, that you know for sometimes, I think people, the reason I think that’s an interesting view to have from you is that sometimes I think people don’t know what the real benefits are of engaging in this type of support when it’s available. And I’d be curious if there was maybe some preconceived notions that you had, or blind spots in that way,
Karen Hague 17:16
I think, as a participant, I thought I knew exactly what I needed to do, and I didn’t. I knew how to do it from a hiring manager or certainly an HR perspective, but I didn’t know how to do that from a job seeker perspective. So that was probably the first thing. And then I think I go back to that asking for support when you need it, and getting into that vulnerable place where you say, I need support from my network or from my coach or from a micro session or a podcast or whatever it is. And that, again, the confidence that that gave me and the ability to be a little bit more bold and take a risk was something that was learning definitely for me. And then I Yeah, go ahead. No, no, please. I was just going to say from the other side of the desk, from the HR leader side of the desk. It was really realizing that an organization that that you partner with for career transition, career transition services for people who are leaving your organization through a reduction in force, any kind of a layoff, is that organization and coaches can help in ways that you as an HR leader, can no longer help in. It’s just a different approach when someone is there to support that person that you have just laid off, and the ability to have that support for them. You know, coaches aren’t therapists, but it’s very much a mental health support in that scenario, that as an HR leader or as a hiring a manager or any kind of an executive, you just can’t offer that person any longer, in addition to all of the tools that I talked about. So the practical support, but boy, that empathetic, really heartfelt support that you can get from an organization that’s in this space is really, really beneficial. So
Kim Bohr 19:20
it’s, it’s a bit of that what we all crave is to be seen and heard, and in the most, deepest, darkest moments of our our lives, having that type of resource can be really critical. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. I want to switch and talk a little bit about some of the organizational impacts that we see. I think you know, you obviously know firsthand we experience people who have a range of emotion when they come, and sometimes that emotion is coming from how it was handled, how the separation was handled in the. The organization itself, right, and how that really just kind of carries through with them as well. So I’m curious that you know, when you think about some of that different levels of emotion, and based on your experience of having been on both sides, you know what? What are the outplacement practices that truly make a difference for executives and organizational health to really get it right.
Karen Hague 20:22
I’d say a couple of different things. One from the career transition side, is that ability to again, meet the person where they’re at and tailor the engagement with that person to the needs of that individual. And you know, if I’ve got eight different clients that I’m working with, it’s eight different approaches for what that person needs in that moment. I think it’s also that roadmap that I mentioned of having the ability got a roadmap that starts here and ends here. And the thought is, you work through that entire, entire roadmap to get to the success on the other side of it. But if we need to move around within that mode roadmap, we can absolutely do that. It is. It’s the ability to, again, I keep saying this, but meet that individual where they’re at and fulfill those needs. Not a linear process that a linear, absolutely great point. It’s that model of change, and you could be chugging along through it, and something happens to put you back at the beginning of that process, and we’re going to go back to the beginning of that process again. I think, from a company perspective, it’s the ability to have someone leave your organization knowing that you did everything that you could, to take to take care of them, to help them, give them a landing, give them some support in moving on. They might not feel that right in that moment, but people talk, and they are going to talk about the support that you gave them, and it’s important for the people who are left behind to know that you did everything that you could in that moment. It doesn’t make it any less tough, but it does make it a little bit more manageable to know that this person is going to be able to move on to something. I think Kim, I can almost always say people move on to something bigger and better with that support.
Kim Bohr 22:13
That’s fantastic. So having been ahead of HR, sitting in the position where these difficult decisions you’ve had to face and make what do you feel many organizations just get fundamentally wrong about the approach to outplacement, and perhaps, what could they do to improve it?
Karen Hague 22:32
From your experience, I’d say a couple of things. I think, first off, the value that companies miss or forget or don’t realize in out placement, and that the money that they pay for that is so valuable, one to the individual that’s been affected you’ve just turned their life upside down. Oftentimes, people are blindsided by that, so that support that you give them that they can meet with a coach the next day or the next week or the next month, whenever it works out for them. Is so important to I mentioned their their health, their well being, and their ability to have a support system and to have a road map to know it’s going to be okay and they’re going to land. And I think from the company standpoint, it’s knowing that someone is going to be empathetic and understanding and experienced in this work to be able to help them get to the other side in a successful way that shows them that there is an opportunity there.
Kim Bohr 23:35
So to expand on that just a little bit further right, organizations have the fiduciary responsibilities when you know the perception of hey, when we’re making, you know, cuts for you know, economic reasons, or whatever the investment reasons, sometimes it may not intuitively make sense to maybe a CFO or or others around well, why are we going to pay for individuals? Because I think that’s an important piece. When services are offered to individuals, from an organization’s perspective, the individuals aren’t paying, but the organization is the one sponsoring it. So you know, what do you feel like? How can organizations reconcile that of this investment that you know, and and the organization and the brand and everything like that.
Karen Hague 24:21
I think it’s investment and brand, those two things that you said, and I’d also add the empathy that you want to have towards your employees. These are your alumni. These are people, as I mentioned, they’re going to be talking about their experience with your organization, so your brand is absolutely wrapped up in that and the ability to have that person talk in a positive light about their experience with the organization, I think, is really important. I think we also, as career transition coaches, are very cognizant of the fact that their company paid for this, and we do reiterate that in our conversations that it’s it’s not their expense. It’s a. Companies, and that helps them take advantage of it, probably even more. So it’s a tough decision to make that choice in light of the fiduciary responsibility, but I think having experienced it on both sides of the fence, I can talk to the fact that it really is worth that investment in those individuals who are moving on. We’ve all heard the horror stories. We don’t need to bring them up here, but we’ve all heard of those stories how companies handle transitions, and it doesn’t have to be that way. There can be empathy and transparency and honesty in the process, and that definitely transfers into the career transition work, absolutely. Do you feel like
Kim Bohr 25:44
the organizations when that when it’s when it’s not such a when it’s a terrible experience? Would you say that that’s often rooted in the culture of the organization? Do you feel like there’s correlation there that translates to just that disconnect.
Karen Hague 26:01
I think it’s a lot of different things, complex and simple. I think probably first and foremost, it does go back to the culture of the leadership in that organization, to be empathetic, to be transparent, to be honest, and not to be afraid of what’s going to come from that, but to be caring for that individual that you were affecting their life, absolutely, I think, you know, one of the things we we haven’t talked about yet, I want to just touch on briefly before we we move into some of the areas that individuals can really look to, to prepare themselves and do immediately is really thinking about those who are not impacted, who are left behind, in a sense, and some of that consideration for organizations. Is there anything you can share about the cons, what you took into account when you were in the head of HR role recognizing that you also have this population that is, you know, continues to stay there, and what does that do for them? I think sometimes we forget that organizations forget that there are survivors or people who are left behind by those who’ve exited, sometimes their manager, sometimes a colleague who has become their best friend, and it’s really hard sometimes for them. So the care and feeding of your organization, of people who remain that you want to be great, productive, happy citizens in your company, is really important too, your team members and that, that empathy, that transparency, that honesty, transfers to them too. Town Halls, where people have the opportunity to talk about it, and leaders who are willing to answer tough questions. When these scenarios or situations happen immediately, not days or weeks, but immediately after, whatever the event is, not having it trickle through, you know, multiple days. I mean, there’s just some really simple but complex things that you need to think about and plan for, for the people who are who are still with your organization, as much as you plan for the conversation where someone is going to exit, or as much as you plan for who is going to exit, every single piece of that equation is so important and deserves equal attention. And I would also say, working with a group of transition coaches, a career transition company, ahead of that, we can provide some of that guidance, because we’ve seen it happen really well, and we’ve seen it happen really poorly, and the difference is very impactful to the individual as well as to the organization well. And it matters to the brand impact. It matters to the engagement. It matters to the involuntary turnover that could come after, or to the voluntary turnover that could come afterwards, with people not feeling like that things were handled well. I think it’s it has a very significant ripple effect that organizations need to be accounting for. And it’s beyond just the simple dollars and cents of the immediate, you know, the immediate situation in front of them. So if somebody’s trying to sit and think about what their values are, what might be a question, you’d say, Hey, start by answering maybe not just as simply as, what are my values, but what are some of the questions you might suggest people just reflect on as a good place to start. It’s a great question, values work can be done by saying, by list, saying, Here’s my values. I think sometimes then you end up with aspirational values, which is fine. Values can be aspirational. I like to do values work by telling stories, and I start with, tell me about it. Time when you worked in a position or on a team, when you were at your very best, and and just tell me the story. And then I jot down the words that I hear that lead to values. And then I might go to another one of saying. Tell me the time where it was really challenging for you. Could be your personal life or your professional life, life. Tell me that story, and I again do the work to write down those words. And then after 234, stories, whatever that is, I go back to the person with the list of words. And at that point, it’s probably 20 or 30 words that are values. And then I let them sit with those for a while and really think about the words and what hits them the most, what lands with them the most, and what’s the most impactful to them. And then we mean again, and we narrow that list down. I think that’s the best way to get it values, because it’s what I hear and what I read back to them through their stories. That’s Oh my
Kim Bohr 31:01
goodness, that’s such a fantastic approach. I haven’t thought of that in that way of, of letting yourself just talk and letting somebody else do some of that filtering through because of the intonation and in the way we think about how we’ve taught the story and the and, you know, even the the body, and like how our how our body shifts and our, you know, our features change as we start to talk about something that has excited us, and where
Karen Hague 31:31
do you light up? Where? Yeah, where do you not light up? And those are the things absolutely that I’m looking for, and the number of times that I’ve sent the values list, or I’ve typed it into a to a chat and had a person really think about it, the number of times they’ve said, Oh my gosh, I didn’t. I never thought about that. Of course, that’s one of my values. Is really, is really fun and really exciting work to do and really impactful for the individual. I think they always walk away with a better idea and understanding of what their values are, and then we work to okay. But what does this mean for you when you are looking for your next role? How do you ask questions of a company that help you, you know, dig into that organization and the culture of that organization to determine if this is going to be the best place for you based on those values. So I want such great work. It’s such great
Kim Bohr 32:27
work. It really is. And so what I want to do is, let’s close out by bringing forward some of these, you know, practical nuggets that people can embrace right now. So for those who perhaps are not impacted, I would guess that maybe there’s, but somebody’s probably knows somebody who has been at this stage. So for themselves, like, let’s talk a little bit about what people could do proactively in the way. And you know, one of the things you’ve talked about is the importance of network, and I think that’s where maybe we should start. So what would you advise people to do, no matter how busy they feel life is to really what can they do to address that opportunity with their network?
Karen Hague 33:05
When you asked the question, I was thinking of three things, networking, networking, networking, to be proactive, no matter what you want to do, no matter if you’re thinking about a career change that you’re going to initiate, or you’re thinking about a career change that may come through no no fault of your own, and you’re just caught up in whatever the challenges of the organization are. It’s never too late to start. I’ve talked to so many leaders who come to their first meeting with I have no network. I have no network. Not true. Everyone has a network. Some are bigger than others, certainly, but a network can be six people. You really have to take the time to think about who that is, list it out, take an Excel or Word document and list out who your network is, why you know them. Who are they, what’s their contact info, and how can they help you? But the other thing is, how can you help them? Networking is a two way street. We all know those people that show up in our email box or in a text saying, I need your help. Happy to help them, but they’re those people that come to you only when they need help. What can you also give to your network and before you need it is the right time to do that. I saw an article and I thought of you, I know the last time we talked, this was a challenge you were dealing with. Here’s something that really helped me send a link, something really simple and easy that takes you, I don’t know, what does that take three minutes to go pull a link and send it to someone. The feeling that you have is an individual who gets that from a former colleague, a boss, a former boss, a friend for years, is so good. So be that person that brings that joy to someone. When you look at your phone and say, Oh, Karen had got in touch with me today. I’m really excited to hear from her. So it’s never too late to do that. Kim, I agree,
Kim Bohr 34:53
and I think let’s stay on that topic a little bit more. So we talk about everybody knows LinkedIn, and I want to dive into that in just a moment. But also your community. So whether, you know, if you have kids in school and there’s events around that, there’s community there. In faith based organizations, there’s community. And so I think sometimes people think, Well, my network feels small because we put a barrier between our professional and our personal lives. And I think one of the big opportunities for people is to shift around this, it all flows together in different ways, and your communities, inclusive of all those type of outlets that you touch,
Karen Hague 35:27
yeah, absolutely. Just like most of us are saying, there’s no more work and personal, everything is blended together. I’d say the same thing about your network. Your network can be personal connections that you’ve known forever, or you’ve known for a day. It can be business associates that maybe you’ve never worked with but you’ve interacted with on somewhat of a on a professional level, it can be colleagues. It can be former team members that have reported to you. It can be bosses that you’ve reported to. It is all of those things. That’s why I say start with a blank sheet and write down everyone you know when you’re brainstorming your network, just like brainstorming a business problem, there’s no judgment. Just put down everybody you know. Don’t judge it, and then go back later and prioritize it, because not all networking connections are equal, but all of them are good and all of them are relevant. And it may take you a while to get to the sixth one or the 36th one, but start with those ones that are, you know, more of a priority based on whatever it is that you need in the moment. Do you have a business problem that you’re trying to solve? Go out to your network, right? You have a business problem that you have solved, that you know somebody else is struggling with? Give it to your network. Yeah. And then if you find yourself in the situation, when you find yourself ready to make your next move, your network is there for you. It’s there
Kim Bohr 36:49
for you. And I think it’s, I love how you said that, that it’s there’s so many ways that we can be tapping into that in a so we just have to think a little bit more broadly. And it goes both ways. And I think one of the things that we often, just maybe sometimes human nature, is we don’t assume either somebody is going to have interest in what we do, or that they have, that they have any relevancy into what we do. And I think that’s such a erroneous determination, because really, you never know who knows who. And that’s, you know, being open to what’s possible and what you can give is really important. So I want to talk a little bit about the LinkedIn and a little bit more tactically there, because I think one of the it’s the predominant tool, right? So most people are on LinkedIn. I recognize that maybe not everybody is based on, sometimes even their own, the type of profession they’re in, but by far, most are. And one of the things that I love what you were saying around it doesn’t even have to be through LinkedIn, but an article that you see, or a podcast that you heard, or something that maybe just feels relevant to touch base with. I also in back in the November, December time frame, we we did a gratitude campaign. We’ve been doing this for about the last five years, and one of the things that we really encourage people to do this year was to proactively send a little note to people on things and give them their, you know, a recommendation or a shout out in ways that there’s perhaps really unexpected. As we wrap up, is there a particular way you advise the leaders, you work with the executives. You’ve you support around how to make that two way ask in the most effective way to your point, not necessarily asking for a job, but even asking for a coffee or conversation or anything like that. Is there some tips about that that you would really recommend
Karen Hague 38:40
for people? Yeah, great question. I think the first one I would say, is just start somewhere. Once you get one under your belt, the next one’s going to be easier, and the third one and the 10th one are going to be even easier. So start somewhere. Start with the people that you know, because that’s easiest. But I will also tell you, surprisingly, sometimes it’s the people you don’t know that are the most willing to help you. Sometimes those close connections will disappoint you. You can’t try to figure it out. You just kind of need to move on from it. But don’t be afraid to ask someone that you don’t know as well to get a resume in front of someone or hey, you work for a company that’s a target of mine. Do you have 20 minutes to meet and talk to me about what it’s like to work at that organization? Most people will have 15 to 20 minutes to give you. So it starts somewhere. It’s never too late, and provide a way that someone can help you. People want to help they just don’t always know how. So if you’re asking, example, if you’re asking for an introduction to a hiring manager or a person at a company that you would like to talk to, give them a paragraph about you that they can just copy and paste into their own email and send us someone make it easy and make an ask, and know what your ask is from this individual. That’s why. When you’re coming up with your networking sheet, you’re listing for yourself how this person can help you, because then you can go to that person with an ask that’s very specific.
Kim Bohr 40:09
And I think the other to cap that off, it’s so important for people then to also say, and how can I help you? What can I do to help you? Is there anything I can do at this stage
Karen Hague 40:21
as well. Yeah, yes, it’s critical to be able to say, How can I help? Well,
Kim Bohr 40:27
Karen, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your experience, your expertise, your tips that you are putting implementing on a daily basis for all of these people that are impacted, and hopefully our listeners can take away some of this from a place of of direction and confidence, and organizations can think about this a little bit better. And for our listeners, we have free resources. They’re very relevant to the conversation today that you can download by visiting courage to advance podcast.com and which will that will that will take you to our spark defect, Spark effect podcast page. You’ll be able to see some other previous recordings as well. Again, I want to thank Karen for sharing your journey and your insights. Thank you for the empathy edge, for hosting our podcast sub series, and to its listeners for tuning into this episode of courage to advance where transformation Leadership isn’t about having all the answers, it’s about having the courage to find them
Maria Ross 41:27
for more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge.com there you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slicemaria. Never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
