Warning: We’re getting a little spicy today! What if caring deeply about your people was actually the fastest way to get big sh*t done?
I’m talking with Carlo Odicino, CEO and Founder of One TEAM Partners, where he helps early-stage companies bring innovations to market without burning out their teams. With more than 24 years of experience in scaling businesses, Carlo knows that psychological safety and empathy aren’t “soft” skills — they’re the drivers of high performance.
Carlo shares how a high school drama teacher first recognized his leadership talent and modeled people-first leadership, shaping how he leads with empathy today. We dive into trust and psychological safety and the natural human tendency to want to learn, and how that builds relationships and trust between leaders and their teams when that trust is there, and individuals feel respected and heard. When it comes to getting sh*t done, we discuss and debunk the excuses that leaders use and give practical steps that can be taken now to show you care and get things done.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Listen in for…
- The surprising question every leader should be asking their team.
- Spotting toxic behaviors that sabotage morale.
- Why some leaders resist people-centered leadership.
- Clarifying your number one priority to keep your team focused, supported, and protected from overwhelm.
“True empathy and caring actually require you to challenge people and raise their standard.” — Carlo Odicino
Episode References:
- The Empathy Edge podcast: Bronwyn Saglimbeni: The Art of “No Enemy” Conversations
About Carlo Odicino, CEO and Founder, One TEAM Partners:
Carlo Odicino is the CEO and Founder of One TEAM Partners. He specializes in helping early-stage companies bring their innovations to market without succumbing to the burnout often faced by start-ups. With 24+ years of experience scaling businesses of all sizes, he guides CEOs and leadership teams through complex challenges to achieve extraordinary results. Carlo holds an MBA from the University of Notre Dame and directs high school theater in his spare time. He lives in Costa Mesa, CA, with his wife and two sons.
Connect with Carlo:
One TEAM Partners: https://oneteampartners.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjodicino/
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FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Maria Ross 00:04
Welcome to the Empathy Edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity, and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host Maria Ross. I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator, and empathy advocate, and here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society. It’s great for business. Warning: We’re getting a little spicy today. What if caring deeply about your people was actually the fastest way for getting big shit done today? I’m talking with Carlo Oticino, CEO and founder of One Team partners, where he helps early-stage companies bring innovations to market without burning out their teams. With more than 24 years of experience in scaling businesses, Carlo knows that psychological safety and empathy aren’t soft skills; they’re the drivers of high performance. In our conversation, Carlo shares how a high school drama teacher first recognized his leadership talent and modeled people-first leadership, shaping how he leads with empathy today. We discuss the surprising question every leader should be asking their team: how to spot toxic behaviors that quietly sabotage morale, why some leaders resist people-centered leadership in the first place, and why clarifying your number one priority keeps your team focused, supported, and protected from overwhelm. We also talk about how changing the relationship happens through changing the conversation. There were so many quotables in this interview today. I can’t wait for you to listen. Welcome, Carlo, to the Empathy Edge podcast. I am really excited to have this conversation with you today. Your background and your work is super interesting, and just the general theme for this episode, which I think is sort of the general theme to my entire work, is how can people first leaders get shit done? So welcome to the show.
Carlo Odicino 02:25
Thank you very much for having me. I’m very honored to be here.
Maria Ross 02:28
So I usually start out asking folks their story and you know how they got to this work, what they’re so passionate about, and I know you have a particular story about your drama teacher and how they were the one that showed you how to tap into your empathy as a strength. Do you mind sharing that with us?
Carlo Odicino 02:45
Yeah. So it was my drama teacher. Her name was Barbara Van Holt, and she was my high school drama teacher and English teacher. And she was just one of those natural leaders that the way she interacted with her students, she met the student for where they were. She didn’t have a one size fits all type of of interacting, and I think it came from just her natural ability. And then also training as an actor and as a director, she really emphasized the importance of being able to kind of connect with a character when you were trying to, and that requires a certain level of empathy, where she had this view of even if you’re playing a villain, you cannot feel like you’re the villain. You have to be sort of empathetic to their point of view and can’t judge it because they don’t. The true character wouldn’t judge themselves, and that really, at very early age, helped me sort of understand watching her not only direct us but interact with all the students in a way that I that just stuck with me. And being in theater, I and I still work in the theater and help direct high school students in theater. I think it taught me so many leadership skills that at the time I wasn’t necessarily consciously aware of. But as I reflected on it and watched her, and what made her such a dear mentor and friend to me was how much she cared about everyone. And I’ve had an another friend kind of say it is like show people you give a damn, and you can get a lot out of them. And she was incredible in that way. In terms of she could, she said definitely wasn’t a softie by any means, but she could get a group of high school students year in and year out to always be complimented. As the shows that we put on felt like a professional show, didn’t feel like a high school show, and that was due to her leadership because she did it for over 25 years, I think. And you don’t do that by accident when. And so I just carried that a lot with me, and I’m grateful that she was willing to continue the relationship and the friendship basically until her passing a few years ago. just a very. Dear friend and mentor, in her ability to kind of listen and guide,
Maria Ross 05:04
absolutely. And did you know at that time, or did that lead you into the career of doing leadership coaching and leadership development to the work that you do now, which is helping leaders and teams create that people first environment, or did you have more of a circuitous route.
Carlo Odicino 05:21
Yeah, I didn’t know it at the time. It was more her mentorship that, as I gained more experience in in the business world, I started more and more to use the skills that I learned under her. And then it wasn’t until about I guess it’s almost 10 years ago, now I had an executive coach, and I was talking to her about how much theater meant to me and that creative outlet. And she was the one. Her name is Tova John Press, and she was the one. Well, why don’t you bring more of that theater exercises to work?
Maria Ross 05:55
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 05:56
and some specific things that she sort of shared was you know in order to put on good live theater, and the type of live theater that we were doing was like the students would script it. It was like a sketch comedy show, but that creative space requires you to show your work, as it were, like not be afraid to experiment and try something. And no, no, that that’s not that funny or that’s not landing. Let’s try something else. If you apply that in a business context, it starts to it creates a much more fertile ground for discussion and evolution in business. I think too often, particularly leaders, are taught to be kind of have the right answer and not show the thought process and not invite people into their thinking, and I’m still I don’t have the answer. I’m still noodling on this, but what are your thoughts on this?
Maria Ross 06:46
Exactly. Yeah, I talk a lot about that in my work. My listeners will be very familiar with the fact that my most recent book, The Empathy Dilemma, is really about providing those five pillars to leaders to help them be both empathetic and high performing at the same time.
Carlo Odicino 07:00
Yeah,
Maria Ross 07:00
and a lot of that, you know, one of the pillars is clarity. Another pillar is decisiveness. These things that we don’t often equate with empathy, but so much of trying to see things from another person’s perspective and bring them along with you is about trying to tap into what their unique perspective or life experience is. And like you started out saying, meet you where you are, and you know we can get so much. I don’t want this to sound extractive or exploitative, but we can get so much more out of our people when we approach it that way. And don’t we all want our human assets to be operating at optimum capacity? Right. It does you no good to say, “Well, I’m only going to do it my way, and you’re either going to fit into that or not. If that only gets you like 33% performance or 33% engagement, why not go for you know 90% or above? Because you simply are able to adapt and to listen. Like you said, it’s not about necessarily having all the answers, it’s about also asking the right questions.
Carlo Odicino 08:03
Yeah.
Maria Ross 08:04
So speaking of that, and by the way, you know, you’re speaking my language around theater and acting because I have told that story a million times about you have to go into a role not judging your character, and so you don’t play a bad character as a bad character because they don’t think they’re bad, right? So I love that you shared that story. But speaking of questions, I want to ask you: What is the one question that empathetic leaders should be asking their team on a regular basis? And if they don’t consider themselves an empathetic leader, is this a question they can put into their toolbox?
Carlo Odicino 08:40
Yeah, and there are many versions of this question, but I think the one question is, and this goes into meeting people where they are, is ask people consistently how are you doing, and probe a little bit more if the answer is always just fine.
Maria Ross 08:54
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 08:55
just and be ready to sit and listen to that response for two to five minutes. So be genuine in how are you doing, right? Or I heard it just recently on another podcast, phrased differently, but tell me something.
Maria Ross 09:11
Yeah, and just
Carlo Odicino 09:13
invite that conversation to open. And and one I like to use when I’m first working with leaders that are kind of feeling that burnout, a version of it is just that opens up that dialog: is how are you sleeping, and that just opens up.
Maria Ross 09:31
Yeah.
Carlo Odicino 09:31
Well, you know, usually get some version of well, you know, there’s no time to sleep or something, and it’s like, okay, well, why is that? Why do you feel that way? And I think the more you can show people with open-ended questions like that, where you’re not expecting a specific answer, and you’re willing to, you demonstrate that you’re willing to kind of listen to the response and take the time that creates an environment where people feel seen. And trusted.
Maria Ross 10:01
Yeah, and to your point, asking it in a genuine way, not in a offhand nicety kind of way. But if I’m going to ask you how you are, Carlo, it’s how are you, like how are you really? And I’m going to lean in. I’m going to make eye contact, and I’m going to make time to hear the answer. And I don’t like always referring to like this, but you know, one of the silver linings of the pandemic was people started asking that question with sincerity, and people also started answering it with honesty. And I think that’s a beautiful thing. And when you talk to leaders who think that that sort of talk is a waste of time, that’s the stuff. That’s what builds teamwork. That’s what builds resilience. That’s what builds trust to create the foundation to do phenomenal work and meet all the objectives and hit all the KPIs and all of that. But it’s anything but a waste of time. It’s actually the stuff that makes the team gel. So I love that. Why is psychological safety such a non-negotiable? Again, you know, you’re talking to leaders who are like, “I just need to get shit done, and they often are like, “I don’t have time for that. Which my question is always, “Well, then, where are you spending your time? Because this is actually what you’re supposed to be doing. But what do you say to clients, to leaders who really question if psychological safety is really that important.
Carlo Odicino 11:25
Yeah, and I think it just really comes down to it’s fundamental because any relationship is built upon trust, and you can’t have trust without psychological safety.
Maria Ross 11:37
And what do you specifically mean by that? I know some people have different definitions of psychological safety. What does that mean to you?
Carlo Odicino 11:44
In terms of as an individual, I feel like I can express an opinion that may be counter to what everybody else is saying, and there are not going to be negative consequences for that having that opinion, so long as I do it in a respectful and constructive way,
Maria Ross 12:04
right, right,
Carlo Odicino 12:05
and because that invites dialog, I think organizations so much shy away from what I would call dialog or conversation, and you cannot have a relationship without conversation, and so, and I will say, if you want to change the relationship, change the conversation.
Maria Ross 12:29
I love that.
Carlo Odicino 12:29
And so, if you’re not, but then that also requires people to feel safe enough to be able to try to change the conversation and not be judged for it
Maria Ross 12:40
right, right, and not experience any blowback to that
Carlo Odicino 12:45
exactly. And one of the things that, going back to Barbara in my high school theory, it was she would never tell us or show us how to deliver a line. She wouldn’t do a line reading for us. If she would just say, “Make another choice. It’s that’s not working right now. Make another choice.” But it gave you the safety to experiment. Then, like it’s not that I’m going to be fired from my role for making a wrong choice or choice that doesn’t quite land.
Maria Ross 13:12
Right.
Carlo Odicino 13:12
I can just make another choice. Make another choice.
Maria Ross 13:14
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we talk so much about you know this age of transformation we’re in and the need to be competitive, the need to be innovative, the need to be first, the need to you know all of the things, and yet there’s leaders who are still stifling their teams from ever expressing a different point of view, from ever throwing out a crazy idea, from ever trying to go down a path that they don’t know if it will succeed or fail. Right? You can’t have innovation, you can’t have market leadership without the ability to try and fail sometimes. Because you’ve got to try some things, and if we’re all so scared, if we’re all living under fear and anxiety to do anything that might get us in trouble, your company’s dead.
Carlo Odicino 13:58
Yeah, you don’t want an organization that just wants to play it safe. There’s no such thing as an organization that wants to play it safe and that is innovative, unless you’re willing to be wrong. There’s no no innovation, true innovation, comes about without a willingness to be wrong, because it comes in on the back end of a lot of experimentation and a lot of different things that didn’t quite work, but it was part of the learning process,
Maria Ross 14:20
right?
Carlo Odicino 14:20
And that’s what I think organizations really need to do. That truly thrive is lean into learning and our humans’ natural tendency to want to learn. When I work with a high school student that says I hate school, I think that’s a tragedy because humans are naturally required are naturally wired to learn and want to learn and explore, and we are taught and sometimes carefully taught to not like to learn.
Maria Ross 14:50
Right, right. Oh my gosh, so important. So let’s talk a little bit about the things that get in the way. What are the hidden signs of? Toxic behavior that kind of quietly sabotaged team morale.
Carlo Odicino 15:05
Yeah, I think some of the things are a lack of responsiveness to simple questions, or like meeting invites as an example of just not responding and not showing up sends a message, and I think that creates a go to this back to relationships are built on conversation, and you cannot not communicate. So if you choose not to say anything, that’s sending a message, and often that message will be imagined because you didn’t say anything by, and it’ll probably almost all the time, if not all the time, be much worse than the reality,
Maria Ross 15:46
for sure.
Carlo Odicino 15:48
And so, some of those signs of keeping on the lookout of just doing the respect of explaining context or saying, “I saw this meeting, I can’t attend. What do you need From me, and then the other side of it that I think is subtly toxic is the people who sort of overexpress. I’m always left out of these things, or I don’t feel included, because that’s putting the ownership of inclusion solely on somebody else. When okay, if you don’t feel included, what can you do about it? Control the controllables. You can ask to be invited in, and then you have data of like, no, well, we don’t need you, or so, or I had this question and I don’t know the answer. Can you please offer that instead of always going back and well, nobody tells us anything, or always the last to know. Take ownership of what you can control of, and that’s really the thing that I tell leaders to be on a lookout for, both for themselves and others, is people’s reactions to things, even frustrating events. What’s their first instinct to blame outwardly, or say, okay, what can I control as part of this? How can I move forward?
Maria Ross 17:00
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 17:02
and when you get people whose natural reaction is that was a bummer, or you know, wish that outcome was different,
Maria Ross 17:07
yeah.
Carlo Odicino 17:09
But what can I do differently? That’s where you have a really strong culture, yeah. Positive, and not having that gets toxic very quickly because then the finger pointing starts to show up, not immediately, but over time. Yeah, starts to show up.
Maria Ross 17:25
Well, and I’m just I’m gonna play devil’s advocate on that a little bit, just as a woman in the workplace and as a woman in tech, and kind of representing populations that don’t feel safe.
Carlo Odicino 17:35
Yeah,
Maria Ross 17:36
saying where do I insert myself, right? And I think it gets back to your point about why it’s so important to create that culture of psychological safety and trust and camaraderie, because you want people to feel comfortable about saying, “Hey, I’m not feeling included right now, so how can we change that together? What is it that you need? What is it that I can contribute? Here’s what I can contribute, and being open enough about that, because for a lot of people, you know, it’s not just in their heads. It is something that’s happening at a cultural level within their organization, from an exclusion standpoint. But I hear you because I think part of it is also what culture has been established by the norms, by the practices, by the way that we treat each other and how the leaders are modeling behavior that someone might feel they can’t do that, and so that’s almost like again, it’s another, it’s almost a jujitsu feedback loop of oh now these people aren’t coming to me and they’re feeling excluded. What am I doing that’s making them feel excluded? How can I be more inclusive? And so, what I hear you saying is, we all need to be taking ownership of that.
Carlo Odicino 18:47
Yes. So,
Maria Ross 18:48
you know, the leader can’t blame the other person about not being proactive about getting involved, and the person can’t really complain about, oh, nobody invites me to these meetings if they’re not saying anything. So, to I think it’s to the your overall macro point of have the conversations
Carlo Odicino 19:04
exactly, and I’m glad you brought up the gender bias that happens, particularly well, and also
Maria Ross 19:09
any underrepresented group, right? Any underground that doesn’t feel safe, yeah.
Carlo Odicino 19:13
I’m glad you brought that up because my experience is often most people that, or just from a gender standpoint, the ones that I often hear saying most, I don’t feel included. Are it’s not women, right? It’s men that I sometimes think are over included to the expense of of women, and but and that’s why I was trying to make it’s just a symptom of something that might be going on. Exactly, I completely agree. Then explore that conversation. Well, why do you feel excluded?
Maria Ross 19:42
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 19:42
and what have you done? And then that can invite that can open up a conversation of, well, I have done, I have asked, and I still don’t get included in these meetings. And then that’s something that you can start to dig and and say, okay, well, we have something potentially passive aggressive that might be going on.
Maria Ross 19:58
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly, I love that. You know, again, kind of getting back to this idea of being a people first leader while getting shit done. Where does that come from? Do you sort of take a tough love approach with your clients? What are you hearing from them about their inability to get things done because they’re being too caring or because they’re putting people first? What are some of the excuses that they make?
Carlo Odicino 20:20
Yeah, that’s usually an excuse for people who haven’t people who have never tried it, right? So they it feels uncomfortable to try that because they’re afraid of if you haven’t tried it, how can you say I’ve been too soft? If you haven’t tried it, how and who you’re too caring is that really something you want to avoid, like
Maria Ross 20:41
yeah,
Carlo Odicino 20:42
I use it that this construct that we’ve used, and I think it’s very powerful. It’s offered. It’s called the Strengths Develop Deployment or Development Inventory SDI. It’s through Crucial Learning. But one of the key things there is people don’t have strengths and weaknesses; they have strengths and overdone strengths, and because no one similar to what we talked about-a villain and doesn’t think they’re a villain-no one shows up in a scenario and says, “I’m going to have a weakness show up.
Maria Ross 21:12
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 21:13
they show in what they feel they’re good at, and then their strength. But like a piece of music that you may like, if it’s played too loudly, then it’s overdone, and you have to turn down the volume. That’s the the analogy I like people to hear about or think about. So, care, give a damn,
Maria Ross 21:30
yeah.
Carlo Odicino 21:30
And if you start to see things that are, for lack of better terms, slacking off or things like that, then maybe you’re not being firm enough, so from radical candor, it’s challenge directly and care personally. It’s both. It’s not either or.
Maria Ross 21:50
Right.
Carlo Odicino 21:50
And I think when you have an organization that is truly willing to have those conversations and those tough conversations, you would find that people are more motivated to do a good job raising a standard. As long as it’s a reasonable standard, actually drives engagement, doesn’t diminish it, and you’re really trying to get to the point where feedback isn’t viewed as something that is negative.
Maria Ross 22:21
Right. Feedback is a gift. If you actually are an empathetic leader and you are grounded enough, you’re not operating from fear and defensiveness. You meet feedback with curiosity. You know, huh? Why do you have that impression? What have I done? You know, how could I make that better? What could I improve on that? Versus, I don’t want to hear it. You’re wrong. You know that’s coming from a place where you are so inwardly focused that you’re not thinking about the other person’s point of view and how you showed up in that interaction. And that’s why self awareness is the first pillar of being an empathetic and effective leader. Is because you’ve got to be grounded enough in who you are, your own values, your own self confidence to be able to take on other points of view without defensiveness or fear. So I love what you’re saying here about this because you know we’ve got the data, we’ve got the research. You know, my first empathy book, The Empathy Edge, was all about the business case for why being an empathetic leader actually impacts your bottom line, and so that’s why it’s interesting to me when I keep hearing about the rebuttals to this, and I I love your very simple answer, which is like, well, have you tried it?
Carlo Odicino 23:28
iYeah.
Maria Ross 23:29
Like, or if you did, maybe you’re doing something that’s not empathy and not caring, and I call that dipping into people pleasing. Right? If you’re people pleasing, if you’re caving into unreasonable demands, that’s not empathy. That’s submission. So what you’re doing, if you say it’s not working, quote unquote, because they’re taking advantage of me, you almost need to look at well, where am I falling down, and how I’m trying to convey my caring. If I think it’s caring to avoid a difficult conversation because I don’t want to hurt your feelings. That’s not really caring. That’s about you leading with fear.
Carlo Odicino 24:05
Yeah
Maria Ross 24:05
If you care, you’ll want to have the difficult conversation to clear the air, to help the rest of the team function, to you know help someone be their best. And I love what you said about the raising of the standard. Right when a lot of times the rebuttal I hear about embracing empathetic leadership is we don’t want standards to fall, and I’m like, where in the definition of empathy do we talk about that? It’s about you caring enough about the other person to raise them up to the level that you need them to perform. You don’t lower the bar; you give them a boost to get to the bar, right? And that’s very, like you said earlier, that’s very individual. That’s very like, what do you need? What skills do you need? What role do you need to be in? What can we do to adapt? Maybe you’re neurodiverse. Maybe you have some issues you’re dealing with at home, and you can’t work standard hours. Whatever it is, what can I do to help you work at your best? So you meet the standard of excellence that we’ve set. We you meet the objective that we’ve we’re aiming for.
Carlo Odicino 25:06
Yeah, and I think true empathy and caring actually, I would say, requires you to challenge people and raise their standard. The standard is excellence, or I and we were very careful about saying big shit done because so many organizations will say get shit done and it’s a bunch of little shit that doesn’t matter.
Maria Ross 25:27
Yeah,
Carlo Odicino 25:28
but if you want to get big shit done, you cannot get big shit done without a well operating team. There’s no such thing as a singular person that can get big shit done because you haven’t reached the big shit done. If one person can do it,
Maria Ross 25:42
right, right.
Carlo Odicino 25:45
So, have you ever seen a championship team that didn’t know how to operate cohesively as a team?
Maria Ross 25:52
100% right.
Carlo Odicino 25:54
That’s the standard,
Maria Ross 25:55
right, right.
Carlo Odicino 25:57
And in order to get there, the path is through caring and empathy, not in spite of it.
Maria Ross 26:03
Right, right. I love that. So, what do you, as we kind of like wrap up? I have one last question for you because this is such good stuff. How do you, as a leader, clarify your number one priority? And let me give you some context to this. As I mentioned, clarity is one of the pillars of the five effective and empathetic leadership pillars, and it’s because clarity is not just kind; it’s empathetic. People know where they stand. They know what’s expected of them. Everyone knows where they’re going. And so, how do you help your clients and your leaders of the teams that you’re working with clarify their number one priority when they’re getting pressure from all sides, they’re like, “I’d love to distill this down to one priority, but I’m getting 60. So, what are some ways and approaches that you work with your clients on to make that crystal clear for them and help them really land on that north star for them and their team?
Carlo Odicino 26:59
Yeah, I think it starts with acknowledging that their priority should be singular, and acknowledge. Don’t try to escape and have a one A and 1b because that’s just two stated differently, and really come to peace with your number one priority has to come from yourself, cannot come from somebody else, because your number one priority is your north star or compass on how you interact with requests that come in. You won’t care if you adopt a priority that somebody else has that you don’t truly care about. So understand what you really value, what really matters to you. So one team, the name of our the company that I started is intentional. So one, it has to start with the individual before they can operate as a team, and team is also an aspiration, which is stands for thrive every available moment. If you find yourself trying to do what others think you should do, you will stop thriving. So, if you want to thrive every every available moment, you as an individual, need to get really introspective and say what really matters to me, and start observing your behaviors of like when I’m not, and sometimes you it takes time, but when I’m not forced to do anything or trying to meet an expectation, what do I naturally find myself Leaning towards, and what about whatever I’m doing? What does that say about what I value?
Maria Ross 28:28
Okay, I’m going to challenge you a little bit, mostly because I want to see if you can help us with this.
Carlo Odicino 28:32
Sure,
Maria Ross 28:32
that sounds great in a perfect world, right? But you’ve got C-suite executives, you’ve got boards, you’ve got shareholders. You’ve got competitive threats. What if you can’t just do the thing that lights you up? What if you can’t just do the thing that feels naturally? But your priority is being set, as it is in most organizations, by something beyond you. Of you know, this is what the team is being asked to deliver right now. How do you help your clients through that?
Carlo Odicino 29:03
Yeah, and I, I guess I run counter to any of that. That in terms of yeah, you’re going to always have outside pressure, board, shareholders. At some point in time, you have to say the best way for me to deliver on whatever you’re hoping to get is for me to be true to myself, and it is not unrealistic. It takes courage and a willingness to say, “I want to do this differently, and here’s why. I am not trying to make an excuse for not delivering on something, but we’re going to do this in a very different way. So, as an example, when you hear boards that may change from one quarter to the next of what the company priority should be. You need somebody who’s willing to say, “Okay, understood. We changed the priority. Are you willing then to say what we had as our? You’re allowed to change your mind because we have new information. But what we had as our priority is now going to take second to this new.” And if they’re unwilling to do that, then you can have the conversation. Well, then we need more resources to be able to tack this at what. And I think we lose sight of your own agency to be able to be it. And it’s not being Pollyanna, and it’s not being unrealistic, but it does take courage to say, “Okay, I am not going to be my best self if I’m consistently making myself second, put differently, you cannot be selfless unless you’re willing to be selfish. Selfish, you have to be selfish. You have to take care of yourself in order to be selfless.
Maria Ross 30:35
I love that you’re speaking to the pillar two, which is self care. So I love that. No, but I think you I think you bring up good points, and thanks for being willing to play with me on some of this because I think that you know that’s the skepticism that you know when I’m out there talking about what my work when you’re out there talking about your work that’s what we’re met with and it’s sort of like yeah you’re right no one said this was going to be easy and what I tell my leaders all the time when I’m doing workshops is this is the job of leading. Like an example, you know, if you say like I’m too busy for all this people stuff, then that’s on you. Where are you spending your time? Because your whole role as a leader is to empower other people to
Carlo Odicino 31:15
yeah
Maria Ross 31:15
deliver for you. So if that’s what they need and you don’t have time for it, what are you actually spending your time on? And secondarily, I’ve written a few articles for Forbes about this. With the AI transformation, those leaders that are hiding behind the doing and the tasks will have nowhere to hide.
Carlo Odicino 31:33
Yeah
Maria Ross 31:34
If their people skills are not so great, that’s what we actually need them for right now. We need their complementary people skills to get to marry with the AI potential, so that we can transform the workplace and we can transform the work. But if that’s what you’ve been hiding behind is your full calendar and you micromanaging and you doing all the tasks and you just like I’m too busy to talk to my team. I’m going to hide behind my computer. It’s going to be a really difficult road ahead for you as a leader. So it’s that idea, you know. I kind of joke sometimes. It’s like that’s why you’re getting paid the big bucks is because it is hard and it does require some time. And like you’re saying, I think the biggest takeaway is it requires courage, and that’s why I always go back to being an empathetic leader is not weak because being an empathetic leader actually requires strength and courage.
Carlo Odicino 32:26
Yeah. So, and you will get the same behavior out of your of the people that you’re leading if they start to see, oh, they’re willing to step out and take a risk and share an opinion that maybe the board didn’t want to hear.
Maria Ross 32:40
Yeah, I’ve worked for leaders like that who you know you saw took a risk, had our backs, defended an approach we were taking, and not only did that kind of increase loyalty, but it increased our engagement because we wanted to double down because this leader had taken a risk for
Carlo Odicino 33:00
us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh, I love it. Yeah, that’s just. I think it just comes down to just a willingness to live what you believe in.
Maria Ross 33:08
Well, I thank you for clarifying also the nuance of the big shit versus just the getting shit done, because I think that’s an important point. So, Carlo, this has been so great. I know we can talk much longer, but we gotta go. So we will have all your links in the show notes. In for anyone on the go, for anyone exercising while they’re listening to us right now, where’s the best place they can find out more about you and your work?
Carlo Odicino 33:33
Yeah, it really is our website oneteampartners.com and and one spelled out O N E, and that’s where you can see more about us, and there’s a link on that website to schedule a meeting and just to chat and introduce yourself to me, because I, as I said, every relationship starts with a conversation. So,
Maria Ross 33:53
absolutely. Well, thank you for this conversation. We really appreciate you.
Carlo Odicino 33:57
Yeah, thank you,
Maria Ross 33:58
and thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the Empathy Edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please rate and review, and share it with a friend or a colleague. And until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity, and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit theempathyedge.com. There you can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources, book me for a keynote or workshop, and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news, and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red Slice Maria. Never forget, empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
