What if the problem isn’t that moms are failing—but that we’ve built systems that quietly ask them to do the impossible and then blame them when they struggle?
My guest today, Rebecca Geshuri, sits at the intersection of motherhood, mental health, and compassion in a way that feels deeply needed right now. We talk about why so many moms feel like they’re failing even when they’re doing everything they possibly can. We unpack the crushing mental load, the lack of structural support, and how quickly shame spirals take hold when moms feel they’re “not good enough.”
This is a conversation about empathy, support, and the quiet strength of caregiving—and why taking better care of moms in the workplace and beyond ultimately makes all of us stronger.
To access the episode transcript, please scroll down below.
Listen in for…
- Why having healthy and supported mothers is key in our organizations and society.
- Lessons businesses and organizations can learn from mothers.
- How to stop assuming and do more noticing and learning about the mothers in your organization.
“Don’t count moms out. They’re working their tails off, trying to be everything to everybody, to care for everyone. They have parts of themselves that are planning things and organizing things, and seeing things that don’t exist yet. Moms are visionaries and strategists.” — Rebecca Geshuri
Episode References:
- Book: When Good Moms Feel Bad: An Empowering Guide for Transforming Guilt, Anxiety, and Anger into Compassion, Confidence, and Connectedness by Jessica Tomich Sorci and Rebecca Geshuri
- Maternal Mental Health Hotline: 1-833-TLC-MAMA (1-833-852-6262)
- Second Street Collective: secondstreetcollective.org
About Rebecca Geshuri, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Co-Author, When Good Moms Feel Bad:
Rebecca Geshuri, M.A., PMH-C, is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She holds certifications in Internal Family Systems, Perinatal Mental Health, and Brainspotting. Rebecca is the co-author of When Good Moms Feel Bad: An Empowering Guide for Transforming Guilt, Anxiety, and Anger into Compassion, Confidence, and Connectedness.
In addition to seeing moms, their partners, and their babies in her private practice in Campbell, CA, Rebecca teaches workshops to therapists, physicians, doulas, and yoga practitioners. Rebecca is the Founder of Second Street Collective, which provides psychotherapy and support to moms and their families throughout California. She has presented at the IFS Institute and Postpartum Support International conferences and has been featured on several prominent podcasts. Rebecca’s work is grounded in the profound and extraordinary experience of being a mom to three daughters.
Connect with Rebecca:
Rebecca Geshuri LMFT: https://rebeccageshurilmft.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-geshuri/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rebeccageshurimft
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rebeccageshurilmft
Connect with Maria:
Get Maria’s books: Red-Slice.com/books
Hire Maria to speak: Red-Slice.com/Speaker-Maria-Ross
Take the LinkedIn Learning Courses! Leading with Empathy and Balancing Empathy, Accountability, and Results as a Leader
LinkedIn: Maria Ross
Instagram: @redslicemaria
Facebook: Red Slice
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Maria Ross 00:00
Welcome to the empathy edge podcast, the show that proves why cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. I’m your host, Maria Ross, I’m a speaker, author, mom, facilitator and empathy advocate. And here you’ll meet trailblazing leaders and executives, authors and experts who embrace empathy to achieve radical success. We discuss all facets of empathy, from trends and research to the future of work to how to heal societal divisions and collaborate more effectively. Our goal is to redefine success and prove that empathy isn’t just good for society, it’s great for business. What if the problem isn’t that moms are failing, but that we’ve built systems that quietly ask them to do the impossible and then blame them when they struggle. My guest today, Rebecca Geshuri, sits at the intersection of motherhood, mental health and compassion in a way that feels deeply needed right now. Rebecca is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist certified in internal family systems, perinatal mental health and brain spotting, and the author of the powerful book when good moms feel bad, a guide for transforming guilt, anxiety and anger into compassion, confidence and connection. Rebecca works with moms, their partners and their babies in her private practice in Campbell, California, and she’s also the founder of Second Street collective, which provides psychotherapy and support to families throughout California. She teaches workshops to therapists, physicians, doulas and yoga practitioners, has presented at national conferences, including the IFS Institute and Postpartum Support International, and has been featured on numerous podcasts, and at the heart of her work is lived experience. Rebecca is also a mom to three daughters. Today, we talk about why so many moms feel like they’re failing, even when they’re doing everything they possibly can. We unpack the crushing mental load, the lack of structural support and how quickly shame spirals take hold when moms feel they’re not good enough. We also zoom out to the bigger picture. Why supporting moms isn’t just a personal issue, it’s a societal one, how Healthy Moms create a ripple effect of Healthy Kids, future citizens, co workers and leaders. So yeah, we all need to care about this. We talk about why giving moms real choice to stay home, return to work or something in between, matters deeply. Rebecca shares how to lead and work alongside moms with more empathy and why hiring moms is actually a smart business decision, not a risk. Rebecca shares a powerful story about how hiring a mom early in her career turned out to be one of the smartest leadership moves she ever made. We also explore why internal family systems is such a transformative approach, not just for moms, but for leaders, helping people build self compassion, reduce reactivity and lead from a more grounded, integrated place. This is a conversation about empathy, support and the quiet strength of caregiving and why taking better care of moms in the workplace and beyond, ultimately makes us all stronger. Take a listen. Welcome Rebecca, to the empathy edge podcast to talk to us all about moms and guilt and supporting moms at work, all the things. Welcome to the show.
Rebecca Geshuri 03:36
Thank you so much for having me, Maria. It’s just really a wonderful opportunity, and I appreciate it very much
Maria Ross 03:42
well, and it’s been delightful to get to know you over all of our pre recording calls and your work. So we heard your great bio before we dig in and learn more about your book. When good moms feel bad, can you tell us a little bit about your story and how you even got into this work? What’s your passion for it?
Rebecca Geshuri 03:58
Oh, gosh, well, my passion. I mean, I mean, I always knew I wanted to be a therapist when I was, like, 18 years old, but I did not actually go to school yet for that, until I had three kids and everybody always, there were a lot of people that said to me, what are you crazy? You’ve got three little kids. My youngest at the time, when I really started thinking about it was about 15 months old, and but I rolled over in bed one day and I said to my husband, it’s time I gotta go back to school. And the reason for that is that I knew that moms needed more support, and so I was really driven to the work because of motherhood. You know, I trained to be a prenatal yoga teacher before I became a therapist. And I thought, Oh, well, I’ll do that. But what I realized is that what I really loved about it wasn’t teaching the yoga poses, the asanas, it was we would have a. 45 minute discussion about motherhood, yeah, what it felt like to be pregnant or postpartum, and you know how it felt to go back to work, and what your issues with your partner, right? And so, like, all of those things were really what I wanted to dig into, yeah, that was kind of the catapult into becoming a therapist and going back to school. Well, weren’t you in corporate? I was I worked in corporate for about seven years before I became a mom, and then, you know, I had my first daughter, and I went back to work earnestly. I really thought that I wanted to work, uh huh, but I realized that it was too difficult. You know, financially, child care was an issue, and I was really pulled in two different directions. I really wanted to be with my daughter. It took a long time to get pregnant and to, you know, have her, and so I just wanted to be with her all the time, and I didn’t want to have to split my attention. So I did end up staying home for about 10 years with my kids, and I loved every minute of it. Well, I shouldn’t say that I didn’t love every minute. I was gonna say, Yeah, let’s be real. I did not. I did not. There were lots of things I didn’t love about it, but overall, I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to do that, right? So yeah,
Maria Ross 06:27
and I love that, because that’s it’s, you know, to there’s a lot of narratives that are out there that are not helping women right now, where folks are saying all women feel that way, no, and not all women feel that way, but it’s about what’s right for you, and what’s right for your family, and what lights you up to be the best version of yourself that you can be. For your kids, right? And for you, it was, I want to be present with them, and that’s great for other women, it’s I need to feel fulfilled outside the home, and that’s great. So I love that. You know, there are places and spaces there need to be more where women can have that flexibility, because it’s only beneficial to our society and to our families to give it’s not accommodating women’s whims, as I’ve heard it described negatively before. I know it’s just about For some women, it is the right fit. For other women, it’s not. And the more that we as a society and as a workplace culture accommodate that, but you know, then you hear horror stories about some bosses who just assume a woman’s not going to come back, or she’s not going to travel anymore. Or, you know, we got to stop making those assumptions, right?
Rebecca Geshuri 07:31
Yeah, yeah, of course. And we have to be having an honest conversation about it too, because, like you said, it is different for every person you know? I mean, I have had countless moms in my office who cannot wait to go back to work, because it’s the one thing that makes them feel like they’re, you know, whole, right? They feel competent, they feel capable, they feel appreciated, they feel smart, right? And so I think it’s important for them to have that be true. And also, there are moms who couldn’t imagine doing it right. And then there are plenty of people who can’t afford not to go back to work, right? Are we caring for those? Those people right our workplaces so that they don’t feel overlooked and abandoned. Honestly, yeah, yeah,
Maria Ross 08:26
lawyers, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we mentioned the name of your new book is when good moms feel bad and empowering guide for transforming guilt, anxiety and anger into compassion, confidence and connectedness. So you in your practice, like you said, you work with a lot of moms, so give us a sneak peek behind the scenes of like, why moms feel like they’re failing. Why is there all this angst and guilt? What’s causing it?
Rebecca Geshuri 08:50
Yeah, there’s so well, there are several factors, right? Yeah, there is sort of the society at large, right? That there are lots and lots of messages that moms are getting about how they should be, how they should look, how they should act, how they should parent, and there’s not really a good playbook for any of that. And so we are internalizing those messages, and they turn into what we would call perfectionist parts, right, right parts that are really critical of how you are showing up in the world. And then, of course, there’s also family of origin stuff, right? That you know, how you were raised, what your childhood was like, what the messages you got from your own parents, or, you know, and even if your parents were the most loving, the most attentive, whatever your makeup is, sometimes we perceive things in ways that that you know, make us feel bad, and so yeah, they those are two major reasons why moms feel like they’re failing.
Maria Ross 10:00
Know, right at the time, right? It’s funny. I always think there’s sort of, like, these three audiences that are the most detrimentally affected by social media. Number one is teenagers, yes. Number two is moms. And number three, I feel like, is young men getting great, really horrific messages on social media. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, the struggle is real, like I’m, you know, I’m a mom, and it’s that constant battle of, you know, every moment of your day is taken up with a thought of, Am I doing enough? Am I being enough? Am I setting the right habits? Am I setting the right traditions, you know? And getting to the point where your kids get old enough, and at least for me to be really vulnerable, you feel like, Oh my gosh. I feel like, I wish I could start over, because I feel like I already screwed everything up. Oh gosh, I wish I could, like, it’s like an etch, a sketch, right? Wait, shake it really. I didn’t do all the habits I said I was going to do, and I didn’t do all the traditions I said I was going to do. And now this, you know, so I it’s crazy. It’s just crazy. So why do you believe that having healthy moms. You wrote this book to help us have healthier moms and to understand moms a little better. So anyone, even if you’re not a mom, read the book, because you’ll understand the moms in your life, the wives, the partners, all of that. Why is having healthy moms so important to society and even like how we run our workplaces, what’s the benefit to us of making sure that our moms are healthy and feel supported
Rebecca Geshuri 11:27
parenting, mothering. And when I say mothering in this context, I’m not just talking about a cisgender female mom, right? I’m talking about like, the act of mothering, the act of caregiving, when we are doing that from what we would call a self led place, like a heart centered place, a place with compassion and curiosity and connectedness. When we’re doing that, when we’re leading from those places, we’re actually creating really good energy. It might sound Woo, woo, right, but we are. There’s a ripple effect, right? When we treat somebody with compassion and curiosity and kindness, there is a ripple effect in their system. And so it’s really important for us to have that across the board, whether it’s you know, parenting your child or in as a leader, treating our employees with that same kind of compassion and curiosity and kindness that honestly, right? It’s like the golden rule, right? What you would want for yourself, right? And if you can imagine that kind of rippling out into the world and right, imagine what the world would be like, right? It was more like that. That’s my hope. So by writing this book, The hope is, is that my mom’s helping to untangle their complicated feelings and become a little bit more calm, a little bit more grounded in themselves. Then in return, they’re more present and more more curious, more open for their kids, for their kids to have their experience, whatever that experience might be, right? So just a very simple little example. I had a client I was working with for a really long time, and she said to me once, I was so proud of myself because my kid had their usual meltdown on the way to school, but I didn’t melt down also, yeah, I was able to stay calm. I was able to stay present with my child, and that, in turn, calmed her down, right? So, I mean, it’s not rocket science, right? No, but it’s having some awareness of what your inner landscape is. And if we don’t have awareness, we can’t change anything so, right?
Maria Ross 14:03
Well, and I also look at it so much more simplistically than that, whereas you were raising tiny humans, yeah, and if we’re not supporting moms, whether we have kids or not, that impacts us, because those are humans that become adults in the world we all live in. They become our neighbors, our teachers, our political leaders, like it’s in all of our best interests to make sure that kids are being brought up in healthy environments. And that starts with making sure moms are supported and healthy. It’s for me, it’s inextricably linked. And I don’t know if that’s just because I’m a woman and I’m a mom, but I’m like, How can you not get it? How can you not get that you, as a single childless person, still have a vested interest in how moms are supported and how children are raised, and to ensure that moms have everything they need to raise the most healthy, well adjusted adults that are going to be your co workers, they’re going to be your leaders. Teachers, right? They’re going to be your pastors and your nurses and your doctors and your lawyers and your partners and your partners, right? So it’s just really interesting that some people don’t make that connection. Of like, Well, I’m not a parent, so I don’t need to worry about this. It’s like, yeah, you kind of do. Yeah, you’re gonna live in the world with other people.
Rebecca Geshuri 15:19
You do, you really do, right? So tell me a little
Maria Ross 15:22
bit about I know you have an opinion about what businesses can learn from moms. We have lots of professional leaders who listen to our show. What can we learn from them that we’re missing?
Rebecca Geshuri 15:34
Oh, gosh, so much. It’s so funny, because when I first went back, let’s see, so I was working in a high tech company many years ago, and my role was to manage the reception desk, and I needed to hire somebody. And my boss at the time a man, and I will always be so grateful to him for this. Actually, we had a bunch of resumes in front of us, and there was one person who had not been in the workforce for about 20 years because she was raising four kids, and she had chosen, you know, not to work outside the home. She was staying home with her kids. And I remember saying to him, and I was, you know, I don’t know, 23 at the time or something. I said, Well, she doesn’t have any experience. And he looked at me, and he said, Actually, she has a ton of experience. And of course, I wasn’t a mom yet either, right? You didn’t get it? Yeah, no, I didn’t get it yet. But I will always remember that we hired her, not only was she the best employee, I think we ever had, she just kept moving up the ranks, moving up the ranks, moving up the ranks, and was just an amazing person, but an amazing employee. So her skills, staying at home with her kids, raising her kids, all of those skills that she learned in that period of her life, right, translated into the role that she was chosen for at work. And that was a huge life lesson for me. A, to be open minded and curious, and B, to, you know, be able to see the forest through the trees in a way. And, you know, don’t count moms out. They are working their tails off, trying to be everything to everybody, to care for everyone. They have parts of themselves that are planning things and organizing things, and, you know, seeing things that don’t exist yet. But yeah, they can see
Maria Ross 17:41
going down the horizon. Yeah, exactly the pitfalls and the opportunities.
Rebecca Geshuri 17:45
Yeah, strategists, right. Moms are visionaries and strategists well
Maria Ross 17:50
and adaptable ones, because no one, no two days are ever the same. So if you want someone who’s adaptable, who can think on their feet, who can multitask, who can communicate with different constituents, who can negotiate well, amen. I mean, I’m not saying every mom is great at that, but like for the most part, those are the skills you and you do end up developing as a mom,
Rebecca Geshuri 18:14
yes, being flexible and being able to pivot, right? Yes, and those are things that leaders really need in their employees, in their senior staff, right? They need to be able to pivot. So, yeah, hire a mom.
Maria Ross 18:31
That’s the net net. We’re trying the net net. Yeah, I love that. So tell us about your modality. You work with moms, and also this can actually help leaders in a modality called internal family systems. So can you tell us how that helps keep us in relationship with each other, instead of being detached and also just defensive and activated all the time? I know it stems from your work with moms, but you definitely have a an angle to this of like, how this kind of thinking and approach can benefit leaders as well, because it’s sort of any human who’s in charge of other humans, right? Yes, moms are leaders. They’re leaders, of course, they’re leaders of their families. So share that with us.
Rebecca Geshuri 19:16
What’s that all about? Yeah, so the concept of internal family systems. And this, this modality of therapy was created by Richard Schwartz, and his philosophy is that we are all made up of many different parts of ourselves. So for example, one part of me really was excited to come on this podcast with you and have this conversation, and then maybe there was another part of me that was a little nervous or like, oh gosh, you know, what’s she going to ask me? What am I going to say? How? Right? All of those parts actually have good intentions, and they’re necessary in your system. So we’re talking about the internal system. What’s going on inside of the. You. And so do you want me to explain a little bit more about
Maria Ross 20:04
what those parts are? Yeah? Sure, just, just give us a little bit of a deep dive, yeah,
Rebecca Geshuri 20:08
so briefly. So there are three different kinds of parts. So there are manager parts, and those parts are proactive. They are the ones that are planning things for you, or organizing things for you, or making sure that you stay out of pain by being proactive, okay? And then there are firefighter parts which are reactive, right? And their name firefighter is, you know, very apropos, right? They just take out a hose and they douse whatever is in the way. If you’re feeling pain inside, they’re just going to come and douse it. And you know, examples of that might be scrolling on your phone for four hours, or having a few drinks or watching TV. My firefighter can be ice cream, because I love ice cream.
Maria Ross 21:00
Sometimes it’s a firefighter necessary. Let’s be real. No, just
Rebecca Geshuri 21:04
Well, that’s important too, right? Sometimes it’s not really like a firefighter. It’s not a right, ice necessarily, right? But, and then those parts are really trying to protect you from feeling pain, and those parts that feel pain, or what we call exiles, those are often sort of little kid like parts that are inside that hold beliefs like, I’m bad or I don’t matter. You know the shame, essentially, right? They’re holding the shame. And so the concept is that we have to get to know those parts of us. So we’re building a relationship inside ourselves with a strong, grounded what Dick Schwartz would call capital S self. In our book, we call it the inner mom, because with moms, it’s really easy for them to relate to the fact that you know they’re mothering other people. And so you can turn that energy back inside you know how to Mother your your child. Can we turn that energy back to you? Right? And so it’s like your inner leader. So that’s the one that you really want, kind of running things, as opposed to leading from your angry part, which might have a knee jerk reaction that you know, screams at your employee that they did a crappy job on their project, right? So by having that relationship inside, you can notice, again, I said earlier, you can’t change anything if you don’t have awareness. And the way to do that is to turn back inside yourself. And ifs calls that a U turn with a u dash t, u r n, which I just think is really cute, so that you can bring some awareness inside yourself. Notice, oh, I’m feeling that bubbling in my stomach right now, when, you know my employee is saying X, Y, Z to me, but I don’t want to lash out at them. So can I turn back inside myself and notice, what is it that I need right now? Because there’s always some need that isn’t being met, right?
Maria Ross 23:17
Yeah. I mean, so much of this is also wrapped up in, you know, our triggers, and, like you were saying earlier, our childhood and the patterns we learned from when we were younger. And we bring all of that into the workplace as well, right? Like I bring my, you know, perfectionist tendencies and my, you know, people praising me because I got straight A’s and the disappointment that I experienced when I got my first b I brought that into the workplace with me, when I started when I started leading and I started performing. And people would always say, like, oh, wow, you’re just, you’re such a go getter. You’re so you know, you’re and I’m like, because I have to be right, yeah. So yeah, bring all that in with you. And I mean, that’s why self awareness and self care are the first two pillars of my five pillar model of being both an empathetic and effective leader. And you and I talked prior to recording that so much of that is relevant to motherhood and parenthood. Yeah, because it those are also the same five pillars that will help a mom gain better balance over, how do I balance nurturing and being empathetic with my child, with holding boundaries and right, you know, clarifying expectations and setting guardrails, and all the things you need to do when you’re raising a human so I love that you’re talking about this, because this is such a, you know, this is obviously a Professional modality of how to look at your self awareness and dig deep that I have never had access to. So I really, I really appreciate you sharing that with us. How do you think we can help leaders can help moms better in the workplace? So we’ve got lots of leaders here, some of them are moms. Some of. Are dads, right, but likely they’re leading someone who is a mom, and what are some things you want them to know about those moms in the workplace, and what, how can we create more empathy for them to have, for those moms to understand what they’re going through, and what would be the best course of action to support them?
Rebecca Geshuri 25:19
Well, I was reading your book last night too, which, by the way, thank you, great. Yeah, you’re welcome.
Maria Ross 25:25
I did not pay her for that. No, not at all.
Rebecca Geshuri 25:29
No, I wanted to know, like, you know, how are you thinking about this too, obviously. And I was really grateful that you said in there that people are bringing their stuff into work, you can’t avoid that. It just is the truth. Yeah, we are whole people, and we can’t just split off parts of ourselves and leave them behind when we go to work. So I think it’s really important to, again, lead with curiosity for on the outside, but also on the inside. Right, we need to be curious about what’s happening for us inside. But when you are encountering a mom, let’s just say, for example, a mom’s coming back from maternity leave, you know that can be a very scary experience for her, and she likely is going to feel pressure to perform and to perform well, and, you know, and I’m not saying she shouldn’t perform, right? She has a job to do, and you’re paying her for that job and everything, but just know that that might be really difficult. She might have a three month old baby at home that is, you know, nursing primarily, and so she’s having to pump at work for milk. You know, there’s just, like, a lot of factors that I think people need to be aware of, even if you never actually have a conversation with the person because you feel uncomfortable or it’s inappropriate. I want people to have awareness. I do want people to be having conversations and be honest about things, but, you know, sometimes it’s too vulnerable, so I’m good on that. So does that make sense?
Maria Ross 27:11
It totally makes sense. And I think that that’s the thing, that you don’t have to have an answer. You just have to be knowing that this might be what this person is going through, but also balancing that to your point with also, don’t make assumptions, right? So even if it’s just, hey, I know today might be difficult for you. It might not, but it might be really difficult for you. Let me know what you need. What can we do for you? Put it proactively out there. Even if they’re like, I don’t know yet. I’m good, right? They might not know that they’re going to start crying after lunch or, you know, whatever, but, but also being able to put those operational things in place to accommodate moms. To your point, does she have to pump don’t make her go into a disgusting bathroom stall? Like, do you have something within your organization that’s like a pump room? Or can she store it in the company refrigerator. Yeah, be thinking about these things ahead of time, yeah, so that you know that that’s the support. And again, the worst thing you can do is assume, assume all moms are on that same journey. So that’s why just ask,
Rebecca Geshuri 28:14
and also know what your resources are inside your company and even outside your company would be helpful, right? There is a maternal, maternal mental health hotline that we can put the number in your show notes if you want. Yes, absolutely. But, you know, but within your company, do you have an EAP program if you notice that your your mom employee, seems a little off, you know, based on where they were before. Yeah, don’t. Don’t ignore that. Don’t shame her, and don’t make her feel uncomfortable. Let’s be really clear about that. But you know, if you’ve got resources that are available, then please share them so that she can get the help she needs.
Maria Ross 28:56
Yeah, know the resources, and it’s also a great opportunity to as as they go through their journey of being a mom in your workplace, check in on what ideas they have for how can we improve the experience for moms so we hire more people that are great at strategizing and multitasking and being flexible, right? And just like you would change chair heights for people of different heights, and you would, you know, put in ergonomic desks, find out from the moms, what would be helpful to have in the workplace, or that the company can offer to make their work life easier, so that they can be more productive, more innovative, more engaged, because that’s the goal, right? It’s not just about accommodation for accommodation sake. Like we’re trying to help create the most productive and innovative workplace we can, and we do that by asking people what they need to make that happen,
Rebecca Geshuri 29:55
and when people feel appreciated and seen and understood. Should they are much more likely to do the things that you want them to do. Yeah, they’re going to be more productive if they feel cared for.
Maria Ross 30:10
Yeah, absolutely. And do you have any different advice for colleagues? So you know, I’m not the manager. I can’t put programs in place, but, but how do you think colleagues can better support moms in the workplace?
Rebecca Geshuri 30:24
Again, I think it really boils down to curiosity. You know, are you interested in what your colleague is experiencing? You know, I know that people don’t necessarily want to be friends with everybody that they work with, right? Let’s be honest about that too, but, but again, I think it boils down to people being appreciated and understood, and you’re not going to feel that way if the person you know walks by you with their eyes down and you know doesn’t say hi to you, because, oh my gosh, I don’t know what to say to a new mom right after I’m back from maternity leave.
Maria Ross 31:04
You know that I love that? That’s what you say. I’m glad you’re back, right? I’m glad you’re back. I don’t know what to say right now. What? Yeah, what lunch Do you what was it like for you?
Rebecca Geshuri 31:13
Though, that’s right, exactly. Or, you know, on the other end of the spectrum, right, there are moms who are launching their kids off into adulthood, into college, right? And, I mean, I’ve experienced that twice now, and it is rough, so you know, possibly they’re going through something as well, or maybe there’s a mom who’s got a kid with special needs and she’s having a really hard time. So I just think there’s so many, so many things to be curious about, and we’re human beings in relationship with each other. Yeah, you know, I’m a therapist. I’m all about relationships, yeah, oh,
Maria Ross 31:56
I love it. So I want to get into some goodies from your book. So my my mom professionals listening out there, what are, what are some of the ways, what have some of the biggest takeaways from your book that you can give us a little sneak peek here?
Rebecca Geshuri 32:11
Well, I think the biggest one, truly, is that, quote, unquote, good mothering is really about having a good relationship with yourself, and so take the time the opportunity to understand yourself a little bit better. That’s really what this book is about. It’s about helping moms untangle their complicated feelings and helping them understand how that came to be for them in a very accessible, gentle, non shaming way. We don’t want to perpetuate more shame in the world. There’s just too much of it. So we want to acknowledge that becoming a mom comes with a lot of complications. And, you know, sometimes it’s hard to become a mom, just at all, but also, as you’re parenting it, your kids are going to throw things at you that you never expected them to throw at you. And sometimes it’s like looking in a mirror, and it’s activating. And so, you know, really getting to understand how that affects you is important work, not just for you, but, like we said earlier, for your kids, ultimately,
Maria Ross 33:36
and everyone around you too. So yes, so I have not had a chance yet to pick up the book. I can’t wait to get my hot little hands on it. But for all of our listeners, can you share what’s one of your favorite stories or golden nuggets or concepts from the book?
Rebecca Geshuri 33:52
Yeah, well, one thing that I keep coming back to over and over again is this concept of the good mom, bad mom loop. So moms are constantly kind of thrown into this loop, which can be really uncomfortable, and it’s, you know, set off essentially, because we have these polarized parts inside of us, right? So, like we were saying earlier, there is one part that feels one way and another part that feels another way, and they tend to be a little bit at war with each other. So in the book, we call that team kid parts, or those are, quote, unquote, your good mom parts, right? Because those are your parts that are solely focused on the kids. And then there’s the team. What about mom with a question mark and an exclamation point and italicized, right? Yes, wait, but what about me? I matter too, right? And so when those part when Mom has like a part that’s wanting something, but it’s in common. Conflict with what she wants for her kids, or what her kids need, or maybe even what society is telling her she should be feeling. She kind of gets thrown into this loop, and it can be really uncomfortable and send her into shame if she reaches that breaking point, right? However, there is a way to not reach the breaking point, and that’s what I was talking about earlier, about turning back inside yourself and noticing, okay, what is it actually that I need right now? And can I give that to myself, right? Sometimes it’s just as simple as I need a snack. I didn’t eat lunch, yeah, right, and so I can’t think clearly when I haven’t eaten. But I just fed my kid. And now, you know, now I’m just nibbling on the rest of their leftover
Maria Ross 35:58
eating the mac and cheese over the trash as you’re about to compost it. Yeah, hypothetically, I’ve never done it.
Rebecca Geshuri 36:05
Yeah? No, me neither. I didn’t eat the rest of my daughter’s toast this morning for breakfast at all. Of course not. Yeah. But you know, so, so there is a need, there’s some, some need that needs to be met there, and also sometimes it’s just that there’s some grief present, that there is something that that has changed, that maybe you’ve lost, and the identity shift into motherhood. And you know, since we’re talking to people who are working to write the identity from a person who works and is not a parent into the person who works and is a parent. That’s a huge shift, and there may feel like there are some losses that come with that. Yeah. So, you know, bringing that grief out into the the light, instead of having it in the dark. When it’s in the dark, it turns into shame and and that’s, again, not, not what we want.
Maria Ross 37:07
Well, speaking of that, you know something that I describe, which is not in your clinical terminology, but I call it the emotional whiplash of motherhood, especially when your kids get to an older point. My son’s 11, and it’s the like, them meeting you and wanting you and being nice to you, and then 10 minutes later they hate you. You’re awful. You’re the worst. Like, just having to deal with a a creature that, yes, is putting you through that mentally, yes, it’s a lot like, it’s like, okay, I 15 minutes ago, I felt great about our relationship, and now I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m the worst mother in the world. I’ve scarred him for life. He’s going to be a sociopath. Oh, like I can predict, you know, you go down this rabbit hole, right?
Rebecca Geshuri 37:52
I call that the spiral of doom. It is the
Maria Ross 37:55
spiral of doom. And just like I, you know, I am fortunate enough that I get to work for myself. I’ve worked from home since 2008 but I used to be in corporate, and I, honestly, I I would be a little bit like, I need a minute if that was, you know, if I had to go into a workplace with other people all the time and navigate those relationships and that, those politics and all of those things. So having not that, not that women and moms can’t, but having that grace for them. Of like, this is a little peek into what’s going on in their lives right now. Like, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, maybe, if I’m a little snitty in a meeting, that might be why, right? And that’s why I’m a huge proponent of groups that can bring that joy into their team, you know, bring that ability to know each other as people do the level set at the beginning of a meeting to say, how was your weekend? How was your day? So maybe the moms can say, you might want to stand back a little bit today, because here’s what I’m going through with my kid, right? And then nobody’s making assumptions about why people are reacting badly to good ideas, or they’re getting snitty, or they’re getting, you know, short tempered. If we can just be honest with our teams that we’re working with every day of just like, here’s my check in for today. I’m actually going to need a wide berth today,
Rebecca Geshuri 39:09
right, right? And also, then respect the wide birth, and then
Maria Ross 39:13
respect it, right? But also, but also, be able to say, I had, oh my god, I had such a great weekend with my kid. We did this. We, like, connected. Like, wow, okay, that person has a little bit more capacity. So maybe we can, we can count on that person a little bit more today, right? But if we don’t do those check ins with each other as human beings in the workplace and get out of our like, we just need to discuss business at the meeting. You know? Well, I think you make a
Rebecca Geshuri 39:37
good point, because one another little thing that I think is really important is slowing down. Yes, because we are, you know, I’m going to make a wide, broad generalization here, because I live in Silicon Valley. Oh, yeah, but, you know, we are, go, go, go, produce, produce, innovate, innovate. You know, keep it moving at all costs. Mm. Hmm, and that’s not actually how humans function, right? And so when we’re in relationship with each other, we need to actually slow down so that we can see and hear and feel what the other person is experiencing, or how they’re showing up. And sometimes, you know, it doesn’t mean that you’ve got to take 15 minutes, but just a breath to slow down a little bit and notice, oh, what’s what is actually going on here? Does this person need something, yeah, that they’re not getting right now? Yeah.
Maria Ross 40:38
I mean, I see that all the time in both my parenting and sometimes in work relationships where I so want to jump to the solution. Yeah, because, of course, because it alleviates my stress. I don’t like not knowing. I don’t like being in limbo. So I want to jump right to the solution, the conclusion, the main point. And you know that means sometimes I exhibit behaviors, like talking over people making assumptions about what they’re about to say, you know? And I I see it more starkly with my kid. And luckily, I have a kid. I have raised a kid to use his voice, and he uses it, you know, he’s like, Mom, stop interrupting me, right? Like, okay, you’re totally right. You’re totally right. But I was so stressed because I didn’t have capacity, that I just I was trying to solve your problem quickly so I could get it off my to do list,
Rebecca Geshuri 41:27
well, and Bravo to you for well, for no, for one time well, but for saying to him, you’re right, for acknowledging The fact that he noticed it, yeah, and not getting yourself into a shame spiral about it, right? Saying, Oh gosh, you’re right. You You just noticed what I was doing. And right when that happened, we got out of connection with each other, right? When you’re in the midst of a part like that, like a part that wants to talk over somebody you’re not actually in connection with that person. And, you know, we can’t really be into a relationship with people if we’re not in connection. So I think it’s such a good example that you you
Maria Ross 42:16
shared, yeah, and you know, we do. We see that kind of behavior in the workplace as well, right? So it’s like, what is going on for you? And it’s funny, because now that I know more about this work, I’ve studied it. I’ve researched it for years. I talked to brilliant people like you. I’ve gone through therapy, you know, I’ve looked back at at, you know, very psychologically abusive bosses that I had in the past, and I didn’t have the capacity. I was in my, like, late 20s, early 30s. I didn’t have the capacity to be sure enough about myself, to be like, Hmm, what’s going on for you, right? You know I was, I was just trying to protect myself and survive, right? And so it’s one of those things where the more you learn, the more you you look back on situations, and you’re like, who? Here’s what I could have brought to that right to make that a better workplace relationship. Again, we didn’t have to be best friends. But you know if, if, and hopefully, we’re raising a generation of kids again, this is where it benefits everybody, right? We’re raising a generation of kids who will hopefully call those things out and be a little bit more emotionally intelligent and be able to see things and see patterns that way as soon as their brains get fully formed, right?
Rebecca Geshuri 43:29
Yes, yes, well, that is the benefit of being an adult, right? Yeah, out of that adolescent period, right? Completely have the same wherewithal to think these things through your frontal lobe is more developed, I should
Maria Ross 43:43
say, for sure, for sure. And there’s, there’s always work to do, right? It doesn’t matter whether you’re five or 50 or 105 there’s always more work to do.
Rebecca Geshuri 43:51
100,000% could not agree with you more. So.
Maria Ross 43:56
So the book, when good moms feel bad, available all the places, yes, all the places. I love it. I love it. We are going to have all your links in the show notes to your work. And also, I just want to mention a side, a side hustle of yours, not really just another project of yours called the Second Street collective. Can you quickly tell us about that, in addition to your your own personal
Rebecca Geshuri 44:18
practice, sure, Second Street Collective is a group of private practice therapists, and we’re all working in community here. We’re located in Campbell, California, so we have an a physical office, but all of our therapists are able to, you know, do telehealth throughout California as well. That’s amazing. And, you know, everyone kind of runs the gamut. There are lots of people who specialize in motherhood in particular, but also we have therapists who specialize in families and in couples and dads and kids and babies and like the whole the whole nine yards,
Maria Ross 44:54
all of it, all of it. Yeah, I mean, I mean, get a therapist. It’s very worthwhile.
Rebecca Geshuri 44:59
Um. And you know, wherever you need,
Maria Ross 45:02
wherever you need, bias, yes, yeah, clearly biased, and you mentioned it earlier. But we’re also going to put the maternal mental health hotline number in the show notes for anyone who wants to have that available for their employees as a resource. So, Rebecca, you’re delightful. I need to talk more mom, talk with you at some point in the future. Thank you for coming on the show and like I said, we’re going to have all your links in the show notes. But for anyone who’s on the go, where’s the one best place they can connect with you, just
Rebecca Geshuri 45:30
my website. Rebecca Geshuri, lmft.com,
Maria Ross 45:34
great, and we will have that link in the show notes as well. Thank you for your time and your insights today.
Rebecca Geshuri 45:39
Thank you so much, Maria. This was delightful, and I can’t wait till we get to talk again.
Maria Ross 45:43 And thank you everyone for listening to another episode of the empathy edge podcast. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Please rate, review and share it with a friend or a colleague. And until next time, please remember that cash flow, creativity and compassion are not mutually exclusive. Take care and be kind. For more on how to achieve radical success through empathy. Visit the empathy edge calm. There. You can listen to past episodes, access show notes and free resources. Book me for a Keynote or workshop and sign up for our email list to get new episodes, insights, news and events. Please follow me on Instagram at Red slice Maria, never forget empathy is your superpower. Use it to make your work and the world a better place.
